For the Animals
An Argument Guide
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G9

"Athletes need meat."

The answer in one sentence

what matters for performance and muscle gain is the amount of protein and energy, not its source. A 2021 study compared young vegans and omnivores eating the same amount of protein over 12 weeks of resistance training and found no difference in muscle mass or strength. There are elite vegan athletes in many sports.

Short answer

What matters for muscle is the amount of protein and energy, not its source. In 2021, a study compared young vegans and omnivores eating the same amount of protein over 12 weeks of resistance training and found no difference in muscle mass or strength. There are elite vegan athletes in weightlifting, running, football and other sports. With planning, a vegan diet meets athletes' needs.

For children

To get strong, the body needs protein and plenty of food. That protein can come from beans, lentils, tofu and other plants. There are champion athletes who don't eat any meat at all!

Ask a question back

"If vegans and omnivores gain the same muscle with the same protein, what does meat add?"

Como pode aparecer

"Nobody builds muscle without meat."
Everyday conversation
"There's no such thing as a vegan bodybuilder."
Everyday conversation
"Athletes need animal protein."
Everyday conversation
"Vegans have no strength."
Social media
"Animal protein is superior for hypertrophy."
Technical version
"Vegans are weak, pale and depressed." (which is G16)
Disguised version

The strongest version

How it is said

"Nobody builds muscle without meat. There's no such thing as a vegan bodybuilder."

Strongest version (steelman):

  1. P1Athletes need more protein than the average person.
  2. P2Animal proteins are high quality and rich in leucine, which is important for muscle synthesis.
  3. P3With plant protein, it's harder to meet an athlete's needs.
  4. CSo athletes need to eat meat.

P1 and P2 are true. P3 has a point: better planning may be needed. The problem lies in the conclusion: the evidence shows that, with enough protein, the source makes no difference.

The argument is valid. Its soundness fails because P3 describes a planning difficulty, not an impossibility.

Full answer

  1. a

    Reconstruction and diagnosis

    The argument confuses the need for more protein with a need for meat:

    What the athlete needsCan it come from plants?
    More proteinYes: legumes, soy, tofu, seitan, plant protein powders
    Enough leucineYes, with an adequate amount of protein
    Enough energyYes
    Iron, B12, creatineYes, with planning and supplementation when needed
  2. b

    Where the argument breaks

    1. The source of protein doesn't change the result.

    In 2021, Hevia-Larraín and colleagues followed young vegans and omnivores through 12 weeks of resistance training, with protein intake matched at 1.6 g per kilogram per day. There was no difference in muscle mass, fiber area or strength. To reach that amount, the vegans used soy protein powder.

    2. With enough protein, the difference is small or nil.

    A 2018 meta-analysis found no difference between supplementing soy protein or animal protein in gains in mass and strength from resistance training. Another, from 2021, also found no difference in strength or absolute lean mass, but found a small advantage for animal protein in the lean mass of younger adults. The difference appears in some studies, is small, and can be offset with more plant protein.

    3. There are elite vegan athletes.

    In many sports, vegan athletes compete and win at a high level. This shows the diet doesn't prevent performance.

    4. Nutrition bodies include athletes.

    The US Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics considers well-planned vegan diets adequate for athletes too.

    5. "Nobody builds muscle without meat" is false.

    There are vegan bodybuilders, and the phrase describes a prejudice, not a fact.

  3. c

    Data and sources

    SourceWhat it saysNote
    Hevia-Larraín and colleagues, 2021, *Sports Medicine*With the same protein intake, vegans and omnivores had the same gains in mass and strength over 12 weeksA small study (38 young men), conducted at the University of São Paulo
    Messina and colleagues, 2018, *IJSNEM*No difference between soy protein and animal protein in gains in mass and strengthMeta-analysis of supplementation trials
    Lim and colleagues, 2021, *Nutrients*No difference in strength or absolute lean mass; a small advantage for animal protein in the lean mass of adults under 50Meta-analysis; the result in younger people comes from a subgroup analysis
    Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, 2016Well-planned vegan diets are adequate for athletes tooOfficial position
  4. d

    The strongest counter-reply: it's harder to reach the protein

    The most serious version grants that vegans can build muscle, but says it's harder to reach high protein intakes from plant foods alone, and that many need supplements.

  5. e

    Why the counter-reply doesn't reach the conclusion

    Omnivorous athletes also use supplements.

    Whey is a supplement; there are plant equivalents.

    Harder isn't impossible.

    It's a matter of planning, as with any athlete's diet.

    The difficulty doesn't justify the harm.

    The effort of planning weighs less than the animals' lives.

  6. f

    Back to the moral question

    If the source of protein doesn't change the result, meat isn't necessary even for athletes. What remains is a choice: does the convenience of a more concentrated protein source justify raising and killing animals?

Reasoning errors

Logical

Is the form valid?

Confusing quantity and source
"Needs more protein" becomes "needs meat"

Epistemological

Does the evidence support it?

Stereotype
Ignores high-level vegan athletes

Moral

Is the criterion coherent?

Invented necessity
Uses a planning difficulty as a justification

Biases

Masculinity and meat

Strength and meat are culturally linked

Linked to L12

Rationalization through the 4Ns

"Necessary"

Piazza et al., 2015

Extrapolations

The principle being tested is: "if a source is more concentrated, it's necessary".

If it applied to…WheyTap to see

It would be necessary for all athletes

Many don't use it

If it applied to…SugarTap to see

It would be necessary for energy, because it's concentrated

There are other sources

If it applied to…MeatTap to see

It would be necessary for protein

The error is the same

Contradictions

Uses protein supplements.

Which aren't meat either.

Doesn't ask where a meat-eating athlete who eats badly gets protein.

The concern only comes up when the athlete is vegan.

What the argument gets right

What is true

Athletes have greater needs, and it's true that reaching high protein intakes takes more planning on a vegan diet. It's also true that studies on the subject are still relatively small.

But

But the available evidence and high-level vegan athletes show that meat isn't necessary. The protein muscles need can come from plants.