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For the Animals
An Argument Guide PT

The anti-vegan line of reasoning

When an objection is answered, the conversation rarely ends: it jumps to another. Choose an argument, see the answer and follow where the debate usually goes next, until you reach one of the roots.

151 arguments connected by 473 paths, drawn from the catalogue chains, the connections in each chapter and an editorial mapping by this guide.

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All connections

Each argument and the paths the conversation usually takes once it is answered. The roots A10, J11 and E12 are where almost everything ends; the map of connections shows the full chains.

A1 Animals aren't rational.

A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.The most common reply to the argument from species overlap
A12 Human babies have the potential to be rational.Second attempt to save the babies without including the animals
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Swaps ability for relationship
A3 Animals don't have language.Swaps rationality for another trait, with the same problem
A7 No duties, no rights.Swaps rationality for another trait, with the same problem
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.Concedes the pain, but denies that death harms
A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.A reaction to data on animal cognition
F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?Shifts to a tragic dilemma
A10 They're just animals.Without a trait that separates humans and animals, species is what's left
A22 Humans suffer more than animalsReason becomes the measure of suffering
A5 Animals aren't conscious and don't feel pain like we do.If reason doesn't matter for suffering, the next move is denying they feel
A8 Animals aren't persons.Rationality is repackaged as what defines a person

A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.

A1 Animals aren't rational.Asked to prove superiority, it turns into rationality
A10 They're just animals.Without a relevant superiority, species is what's left
A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.When babies and people with disabilities enter the picture, what's normal for the species is invoked
A20 Humans have intrinsic value; animals have instrumental value.Swaps ability for value, with no new justification
C6 Might makes right.When moral superiority falls, power is what's left
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Swaps hierarchy for partiality
F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?Looks for a case where preferring humans seems obvious
L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.A reaction to the idea of equal consideration
A3 Animals don't have language.Superiority turns into language
A4 Animals don't have souls.Superiority turns into the soul

A3 Animals don't have language.

A10 They're just animals.When language doesn't separate humans and animals, species is what's left
A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.A reaction to the evidence of communication and pain
A5 Animals aren't conscious and don't feel pain like we do.From the lack of a report to denying the experience
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain."Fish don't even scream" is the underwater version of A3
A7 No duties, no rights.No language, no contract; the topic moves from "feeling" to "negotiating"
A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?If communication comes in degrees, an exact boundary is demanded
E7 I don't want to see those videos.When the pain becomes visible and audible, the evidence is avoided

A4 Animals don't have souls.

A10 They're just animals.When the soul can't serve as a public criterion, species is what's left
A20 Humans have intrinsic value; animals have instrumental value.Swaps "soul" for "dignity"
D4 God gave us dominion over animals.From the soul to a divine mandate
D5 Jesus ate fish.Appeal to a concrete religious example
A5 Animals aren't conscious and don't feel pain like we do.Cartesian version: no soul, no feeling
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Religious freedom used as a shield
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.The debate turns into a clash of beliefs

A5 Animals aren't conscious and don't feel pain like we do.

A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.A reaction to the evidence of emotions
A22 Humans suffer more than animalsOnce pain is admitted, its intensity is debated
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.The last frontier of the same argument
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.Concedes the pain and shifts to death
B1 There is humane slaughter.Concedes the pain and shifts to the method
A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?If many feel, an exact boundary is demanded

A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.

A14 Plants feel too.Tries to even the score by diluting the criterion
A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?If fish and crabs feel, the question turns to insects and bacteria
F7 Oysters and mussels don't feel.A genuine case of uncertainty, treated separately
H10 Sustainable fishing and aquaculture solve it.Switches from sentience to the environment
I10 In sport fishing the fish is released.Concedes the pain and denies its seriousness

A7 No duties, no rights.

A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.When babies and people with disabilities enter the picture, what's normal for the species is invoked
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Swaps contract for emotional bond
A17 Animals are property.From "no rights" to the status of a thing
C2 Lions eat other animals.Reciprocity turned against wild animals
F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?Confusing an agent's duties with a patient's protection
A8 Animals aren't persons.From duties to the legal definition of a person
A9 Rights are a human invention, only for humans.If rights don't depend on duties, it's said they're our own invention

A8 Animals aren't persons.

A10 They're just animals.When the definition of a person doesn't separate humans and animals, species is what's left
A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.When babies and people with disabilities enter the picture, what's normal for the species is invoked
A12 Human babies have the potential to be rational.Same function, by another route
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.Shifts the discussion from pain to death
A17 Animals are property.The legal opposite of a person is a thing
A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.A reaction to the language of personhood
A9 Rights are a human invention, only for humans.If the word "person" doesn't settle it, rights would be a human convention

A9 Rights are a human invention, only for humans.

A17 Animals are property.Convention turns into property
A23 Morality exists to protect us from each otherThe invention turns into a contract
A7 No duties, no rights.If the origin of rights doesn't settle it, reciprocity is demanded
A10 They're just animals.When convention is questioned, the species line is what's left
D7 It's legal; the law allows it.The practical version of the same appeal to convention
E2 Morality is relative.Generalizes the claim to all of ethics
E4 The state can't ban what I eat.Moves from convention to individual freedom

A10 They're just animals.

A1 Animals aren't rational.Asked for a criterion, rationality is offered
A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.A more sophisticated attempt to save the boundary
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Swaps the criterion for emotional partiality
A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.Shifts from the individual to the collective
F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?Looks for a case where the preference seems obvious
L7 Comparing animal farming to slavery or the Holocaust is offensive.A reaction to the structural analogy
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.When the argument runs out, raw honesty is what's left
A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.Asked for a criterion, superiority is offered
A24 Species is biology, race is a social constructWhen asked why species matters
A4 Animals don't have souls.Asked for a criterion, the soul is offered

A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.

A12 Human babies have the potential to be rational.Second attempt to protect the same cases
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Third attempt, now through affection
A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.Takes the shift from individual to group to the extreme
A20 Humans have intrinsic value; animals have instrumental value.Turns the norm into dignity
A10 They're just animals.When the norm is taken apart, the bare boundary is what's left

A12 Human babies have the potential to be rational.

A13 It's natural to put our own first.Third attempt, through affection
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.Natural next step: the discussion turns to how serious death is
A8 Animals aren't persons.Potential is used to say the baby is a person in the making
A10 They're just animals.When all three attempts fail, the bare boundary is what's left
A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.If potential doesn't protect everyone, what's normal for the species is invoked

A13 It's natural to put our own first.

F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?Preferring our own becomes a life-or-death dilemma
J6 There are more important human problems.Priority turns into a queue of causes
L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.Accuses those who don't prioritize the same way

A14 Plants feel too.

A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?If plants don't count, the question becomes where the line is
H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.Switches to the animals killed in harvests
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.Concludes that no diet is innocent

A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?

A10 They're just animals.Without an exact line, it goes back to the species boundary
F7 Oysters and mussels don't feel.Looks for a favorable borderline case
E2 Morality is relative.If the line is hard to draw, everyone would draw their own

A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.

A1 Animals aren't rational.If death is a harm, it is claimed they don't understand their own lives
B5 They had a good life and a quick death.Pairs painless death with the promise of a good life
A10 They're just animals.When asked why it would apply only to animals

A17 Animals are property.

D7 It's legal; the law allows it.From property status to legality
A10 They're just animals.When the law doesn't justify it, species is what's left
A9 Rights are a human invention, only for humans.Argues that rights are only for humans

A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.

B6 Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist.The species survives thanks to farming
H11 Hunting controls populations.Uses population balance as the criterion
A10 They're just animals.When the individual is back at the center, species is what's left
C7 It's the circle of life.The species carries on, so it would just be the circle of life

A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.

A5 Animals aren't conscious and don't feel pain like we do.Moves on to denying animal pain
E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.Says it's emotion, not science
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.Treats concern as fanaticism

A20 Humans have intrinsic value; animals have instrumental value.

A4 Animals don't have souls.Looks for the source of that value in the soul
A10 They're just animals.Without a criterion, value becomes the species itself

A21 I respect animals, but humans come first

A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.Special status turns into superiority
A1 Animals aren't rational.When asked where dignity comes from
A10 They're just animals.When ability doesn't hold up, species is what's left
J6 There are more important human problems.Hierarchy turns into an order of priorities

A22 Humans suffer more than animals

A21 I respect animals, but humans come firstIntensity turns into priority
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.The same reasoning applied to even simpler minds
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.If the suffering is smaller, death is debated

A23 Morality exists to protect us from each other

A7 No duties, no rights.Exclusion from the contract becomes a lack of rights
C6 Might makes right.If only those who can threaten count, strength counts
A10 They're just animals.When the exclusion of vulnerable humans is pointed out

A24 Species is biology, race is a social construct

A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.The species itself becomes what has value
A1 Animals aren't rational.Species is swapped for abilities
A11 It's normal for humans to be rational.Abilities are attributed to the species again

B1 There is humane slaughter.

A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.The hidden premise of humane slaughter
B2 Free-range animals are happy.From painless death to a good life
B5 They had a good life and a quick death.Combines the two promises
A10 They're just animals.When asked why it would apply only to animals

B2 Free-range animals are happy.

B5 They had a good life and a quick death.If the life isn't that good, the promise of a quick death is added
H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.Switches from welfare to the environment
B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.Moves the problem to scale

B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.

K4 There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.If consumption sustains the industry, it's said no consumption is ethical
K9 Vegans should fight for laws, not diets.Opposes political action to personal choice

B5 They had a good life and a quick death.

B6 Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist.If a good life doesn't license killing, it's said they wouldn't even exist
F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?The comparison with nature turns into a taunt

B6 Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist.

A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.If giving life doesn't license taking it, the reply is to deny that death harms
J5 What would we do with the animals if everyone went vegan?Their existence becomes a practical problem

B7 Milk and eggs don't kill anyone.

B2 Free-range animals are happy.Says they buy free-range
C10 Cows need to be milked.Claims that milking even helps the cow
G5 Milk is necessary for your bones.Switches to necessity
F6 What about the eggs from my rescued hen?Appeals to the case of the rescued hen's egg

B8 The law guarantees animal welfare.

B1 There is humane slaughter.If the law doesn't protect, it is claimed that at least slaughter is humane
B10 Stressed animals make bad meat, so farmers take good care of them.From the legal incentive to the economic one
B9 Those videos are exceptions or staged.Faced with the footage, it is claimed the standard is different

B9 Those videos are exceptions or staged.

B1 There is humane slaughter.If the footage is real, it's claimed the standard is humane slaughter
E7 I don't want to see those videos.When the videos are undeniable, people avoid watching them

B10 Stressed animals make bad meat, so farmers take good care of them.

B8 The law guarantees animal welfare.Says the law guarantees the rest
B2 Free-range animals are happy.Moves on to free-range animals

C1 It's natural to eat meat.

A1 Animals aren't rational.When the appeal to nature fails, an "objective" criterion is sought
A10 They're just animals.Without nature or custom, species is what's left
C2 Lions eat other animals.Looks to nature for an example to copy
C3 We have canine teeth; we are omnivores.Anatomical version of the same argument
C5 Eating meat made us evolve.The evolutionary version
C11 We naturally crave meat.The craving version
G1 We need animal protein.When "natural" doesn't convince, "necessary" is invoked

C2 Lions eat other animals.

C3 We have canine teeth; we are omnivores.If lions aren't a model, anatomy is invoked
G1 We need animal protein.If nature doesn't convince, necessity is invoked
F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?The comparison turns into a taunt

C3 We have canine teeth; we are omnivores.

C5 Eating meat made us evolve.If being able to eat it creates no duty, evolution is invoked
G1 We need animal protein.From anatomy to necessity

C4 We're at the top of the food chain.

A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.From the top of the food chain to superiority
C6 Might makes right.Position turns into power

C5 Eating meat made us evolve.

C11 We naturally crave meat.If the past doesn't decide, desire is invoked
G1 We need animal protein.From the past to necessity

C6 Might makes right.

C4 We're at the top of the food chain.Points out that we're at the top of the food chain
A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.Strength turns into superiority
A10 They're just animals.When strength doesn't justify it, species is what's left

C7 It's the circle of life.

C1 It's natural to eat meat.The cycle turns into nature
A16 Killing without pain isn't harm.If everyone dies, death wouldn't be a harm

C8 If we don't eat them, animals will take over the planet.

B6 Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist.From excess to existence
J5 What would we do with the animals if everyone went vegan?Asks what to do with the animals

C9 Farm animals exist for this.

A17 Animals are property.From purpose to property
A10 They're just animals.When the purpose is assigned by whoever profits, species is what's left

C10 Cows need to be milked.

B7 Milk and eggs don't kill anyone.Says milk doesn't kill anyone
G5 Milk is necessary for your bones.Claims that milk is necessary
C9 Farm animals exist for this.The dairy cow becomes an animal made to give milk

C11 We naturally crave meat.

J11 Meat tastes good.The natural craving becomes, simply, the taste
G11 My body can't adapt.The craving becomes the body's inability
G1 We need animal protein.If desire doesn't justify it, necessity is invoked

D1 We've always done it.

A10 They're just animals.Without custom, species is what's left
C1 It's natural to eat meat.From custom to nature
D2 It's cultural; criticizing it is ethnocentric.Tradition turns into cultural identity
D3 Indigenous and traditional peoples eat animals.Looks for a case where tradition seems untouchable
D8 Barbecues bring the family together.Tradition turns into affection
E2 Morality is relative.When tradition isn't enough, morality is relativized

D2 It's cultural; criticizing it is ethnocentric.

E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Culture turns into personal choice
E2 Morality is relative.From cultural relativism to moral relativism
D3 Indigenous and traditional peoples eat animals.A people whose culture seems untouchable is sought
I8 Rodeos, bullfights and circuses are culture.The argument extends to entertainment

D3 Indigenous and traditional peoples eat animals.

F1 On a desert island, would you eat an animal?From a people with no alternative to the hypothetical case
J7 Veganism is a political ideology or a globalist agenda.The charge of colonialism becomes a political charge
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.If there are exceptions, everyone would decide their own
E2 Morality is relative.If the exception doesn't apply to everyone, morality is relativized

D4 God gave us dominion over animals.

A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.God-given dominion turns into superiority
D5 Jesus ate fish.From Genesis to the example of Jesus
A20 Humans have intrinsic value; animals have instrumental value.Creation turns into a hierarchy of value

D5 Jesus ate fish.

D10 Great thinkers ate meat.Moves on to other authorities
D4 God gave us dominion over animals.Appeals to God-given dominion

D6 Everybody eats meat.

D1 We've always done it.If the majority doesn't decide, age is invoked
E9 Eating meat isn't an ideology; veganism is.The majority turns into neutrality
L10 Most vegans give up.From how many eat meat to how many quit

D7 It's legal; the law allows it.

B8 The law guarantees animal welfare.Trusts the law to guarantee welfare
E4 The state can't ban what I eat.Says the state can't ban it
D1 We've always done it.The law turns into tradition

D8 Barbecues bring the family together.

D2 It's cultural; criticizing it is ethnocentric.Family turns into culture
J13 Eating out, traveling and parties become impossible.Talks about the social cost of changing
J11 Meat tastes good.Admits that what matters is the taste

D9 My grandparents ate meat and lived to 90.

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.Counters with the case of someone who got sick
G1 We need animal protein.Concludes that meat is necessary
D1 We've always done it.The grandparents' experience turns into tradition

D10 Great thinkers ate meat.

E11 Even philosophers don't agree.Says even philosophers don't agree
D1 We've always done it.Authority turns into tradition
A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.Cites the philosophers who defended human superiority

E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.

E2 Morality is relative.From personal choice to personal morality
E4 The state can't ban what I eat.Swaps the moral question for the legal one
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.When freedom isn't enough, frankness is what's left
A10 They're just animals.If there's a victim, what's left is saying it's just an animal

E2 Morality is relative.

A23 Morality exists to protect us from each otherIf morality is a deal, each group decides who is in
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.If morality isn't so relative, it goes back to personal choice
E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.Relativism turns into skepticism about ethics
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.When relativism falls, frankness is what's left

E4 The state can't ban what I eat.

E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Back to personal choice
J7 Veganism is a political ideology or a globalist agenda.Says it's a political agenda

E5 Everything in moderation.

J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.Says they already eat little meat
E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.Nobody's perfect

E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.

E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.Admits they won't change
J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.Does what they can by eating less
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.If nobody's perfect, neither are vegans

E7 I don't want to see those videos.

B9 Those videos are exceptions or staged.Says the videos are exceptions
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Back to personal choice
L1 Vegans are annoying and think they are better.The message turns into irritation with the messenger

E8 I love animals, but...

A21 I respect animals, but humans come firstDeclared affection turns into hierarchy
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.Admits the contradiction and doesn't change
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Puts pets first
J11 Meat tastes good.Loves animals, but likes meat

E9 Eating meat isn't an ideology; veganism is.

E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.Ideology becomes mere opinion
J7 Veganism is a political ideology or a globalist agenda.Veganism becomes a political agenda
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.Veganism becomes a cult

E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.

E11 Even philosophers don't agree.Says even philosophers don't agree
E2 Morality is relative.Concludes that morality is relative

E11 Even philosophers don't agree.

E2 Morality is relative.From disagreement to relativism
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Everyone decides for themselves
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.Like the experts, admits the error and doesn't change
E13 Defending animals is just utilitarianismDisagreement becomes the label of a single school

E13 Defending animals is just utilitarianism

E2 Morality is relative.When the theory falls, relativism is invoked
A10 They're just animals.Without the critique of the theory, species is what's left

F1 On a desert island, would you eat an animal?

F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?If extreme necessity doesn't apply today, another dilemma is proposed
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.If there are exceptions, everyone would decide their own
G1 We need animal protein.From extreme hunger to everyday necessity

F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?

A21 I respect animals, but humans come firstThe emergency dilemma becomes a general rule
E13 Defending animals is just utilitarianismTrade-off dilemmas link animal advocacy to utilitarianism
A2 Humans are superior, so we can use the inferior.The dilemma turns into a hierarchy of value
A13 It's natural to put our own first.From the dilemma back to preferring our own
A10 They're just animals.If the dilemma doesn't license exploitation, species is what's left
F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?From the human dilemma to predators

F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?

C1 It's natural to eat meat.If nature isn't condemned, meat would be natural too
H11 Hunting controls populations.From intervening in nature to hunting
F4 What about the insects you kill while driving?If we needn't police lions, the insects we kill are pointed out

F4 What about the insects you kill while driving?

A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?If accidental harm is different, the question becomes where the line is
H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.Brings up the animals killed in harvests
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Accuses of hypocrisy
F9 You also kill mosquitoes and rats at home.Moves on to harm done at home

F6 What about the eggs from my rescued hen?

B7 Milk and eggs don't kill anyone.Generalizes to all eggs and milk
F7 Oysters and mussels don't feel.Looks for another edge case

F7 Oysters and mussels don't feel.

A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?Asks where the line is
A14 Plants feel too.Extends the doubt to plants
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.Extends the doubt to fish and invertebrates

F8 What about meat that gets thrown away?

F6 What about the eggs from my rescued hen?Looks for another case with no apparent harm
K2 The animal is already dead.The animal is already dead
K1 One person doesn't make a difference.From leftovers to the idea that one purchase changes nothing

F9 You also kill mosquitoes and rats at home.

A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?Asks where the line is
H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.Brings up the animals killed in harvests
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Accuses of hypocrisy

G1 We need animal protein.

G2 Plant protein is incomplete.If there's plant protein, it's said to be incomplete
G9 Athletes need meat.Moves on to athletes
G16 Vegans are weak, pale and depressed.Necessity turns into a stereotype
G3 If you need B12 supplements, it isn't natural.If protein isn't lacking, B12 is pointed to

G2 Plant protein is incomplete.

G9 Athletes need meat.Moves on to athletes
G4 You'll lack iron, zinc and other micronutrients.From protein to micronutrients
G3 If you need B12 supplements, it isn't natural.If plant protein is complete, B12 is pointed to

G3 If you need B12 supplements, it isn't natural.

C1 It's natural to eat meat.The supplement becomes an argument from nature
G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.If supplements don't invalidate the diet, someone who got sick is cited
G11 My body can't adapt.The need for a supplement becomes the body's inability
H1 Vegans' soy is destroying the Amazon.If health doesn't settle it, the topic switches to the environment

G4 You'll lack iron, zinc and other micronutrients.

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.Knows someone who became anemic
G16 Vegans are weak, pale and depressed.The deficiency turns into a stereotype
G3 If you need B12 supplements, it isn't natural.Says a diet that needs supplements isn't natural

G5 Milk is necessary for your bones.

C10 Cows need to be milked.From milk as a necessity to milk as a favor to the cow
G8 Children and pregnant women can't be vegan.Asks about children

G6 Only fish provides omega-3.

H10 Sustainable fishing and aquaculture solve it.Defends sustainable fishing
G1 We need animal protein.Back to needing animal products
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.Moves on to denying that fish suffer

G7 Soy causes female hormones and cancer.

G14 Ultra-processed vegan foods are worse than meat.Attacks ultra-processed vegan food
H1 Vegans' soy is destroying the Amazon.Says soy causes deforestation
L12 Meat is for real men.The fear of feminization turns into masculinity

G8 Children and pregnant women can't be vegan.

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.Knows of a sick child
G17 My doctor told me to eat meat.Appeals to the pediatrician
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Parents decide their children's diet

G9 Athletes need meat.

G16 Vegans are weak, pale and depressed.Says vegans are weak
G1 We need animal protein.Back to protein
L12 Meat is for real men.Strength turns into masculinity

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.

G11 My body can't adapt.If the case is anecdotal, it's said one's own body doesn't adapt
L10 Most vegans give up.From the individual case to statistics on quitting

G11 My body can't adapt.

E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.If the body adapts, what's left is "my body, my choice"
G17 My doctor told me to eat meat.Appeals to the doctor

G12 A carnivore, paleo or keto diet is healthiest.

G13 The WHO exaggerates; red meat isn't bad for you.Says the WHO exaggerates
C5 Eating meat made us evolve.Says eating meat made us evolve

G13 The WHO exaggerates; red meat isn't bad for you.

E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.Says nutrition isn't solid science
G12 A carnivore, paleo or keto diet is healthiest.Defends the carnivore diet

G14 Ultra-processed vegan foods are worse than meat.

J10 Vegan food is bland.Says vegan food is bland
L8 If vegans eat fake meat, they want meat.Says imitating meat means wanting meat
L13 Veganism is just a fad dietVeganism is reduced to store products

G15 Plants have antinutrients.

G12 A carnivore, paleo or keto diet is healthiest.Defends the carnivore diet
A14 Plants feel too.Plants defend themselves too

G16 Vegans are weak, pale and depressed.

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.Cites a concrete case
L12 Meat is for real men.Meat is for real men

G17 My doctor told me to eat meat.

G10 I know someone who got sick being vegan.Backs it up with well-known cases
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.Back to personal choice

H1 Vegans' soy is destroying the Amazon.

H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.If soy goes to feed, the animals killed in harvests are brought up
H4 Cattle graze where crops can't grow.Defends cattle on land unfit for crops
H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.Defends local meat

H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.

H4 Cattle graze where crops can't grow.If livestock uses more cropland, it's said cattle graze where crops can't grow
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.If plant farming kills fewer animals, the reply is that no vegan is perfect

H3 Regenerative grazing sequesters carbon.

H13 If meat is sustainable, there's no problem.Sustainability becomes a justification
H4 Cattle graze where crops can't grow.Cattle make use of poor land
H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.If grazing can't scale, local organic meat is defended

H4 Cattle graze where crops can't grow.

H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.Defends local grass-fed meat
J14 Fishers and ranchers would lose their identity.Brings up the people who live off cattle
H3 Regenerative grazing sequesters carbon.If the land could be rewilded, regenerative grazing is defended

H5 Cow methane is biogenic; it doesn't count.

H12 Livestock pollutes little; the problem is fossil fuels.The problem would be fossil fuels
H3 Regenerative grazing sequesters carbon.Defends regenerative grazing

H6 Avocados and almonds use a lot of water.

H7 Imported vegan food pollutes in transport.Switches to transport
H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.Brings up the animals killed in harvests

H7 Imported vegan food pollutes in transport.

H6 Avocados and almonds use a lot of water.Back to the water used by crops
H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.Defends local meat

H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.

H13 If meat is sustainable, there's no problem.If local meat isn't cleaner, what's left is: if it were sustainable, it'd be fine

H9 Agriculture can't work without manure.

H4 Cattle graze where crops can't grow.Cattle make use of poor land
H8 Local, organic meat is sustainable.Defends organic meat
J15 A vegan world is utopian.Dependence turns into impossibility

H10 Sustainable fishing and aquaculture solve it.

F7 Oysters and mussels don't feel.Says oysters and mussels don't feel
A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.Says fish don't feel pain
H13 If meat is sustainable, there's no problem.Sustainability becomes a justification

H11 Hunting controls populations.

A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.What matters is the population, not the individual
I12 Trophy hunting funds conservation.Hunting funds conservation

H12 Livestock pollutes little; the problem is fossil fuels.

K1 One person doesn't make a difference.One person makes no difference
H13 If meat is sustainable, there's no problem.If it's sustainable, it's fine
J6 There are more important human problems.There are more important problems

H13 If meat is sustainable, there's no problem.

B1 There is humane slaughter.Back to humane slaughter
A10 They're just animals.When the environment isn't the issue, species is what's left
H14 Eating insects is the sustainable protein of the futureSustainability becomes a moral criterion

H14 Eating insects is the sustainable protein of the future

A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.When asked whether insects feel
A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?Doubt becomes a challenge about the limits
I5 Bees make extra honey.Another use of insects defended as harmless

I1 Animal testing has saved millions of lives.

F2 If a dog and a child were drowning, which would you save?Proposes the dilemma of whom to save
I2 If you take medicine, you can't oppose testing.Accuses those who take medicine
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Puts humans first

I2 If you take medicine, you can't oppose testing.

L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Generalizes the charge of hypocrisy
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.No vegan is perfect

I3 Leather is just a byproduct of meat.

K2 The animal is already dead.The animal would already be dead
B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.The problem would be the industry
I4 Sheep need to be shorn.From leather to wool

I4 Sheep need to be shorn.

C9 Farm animals exist for this.Sheep would exist for this
I5 Bees make extra honey.If shearing doesn't justify it, the topic moves to honey

I5 Bees make extra honey.

A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.Says insects don't feel
A15 Where do you draw the line? Insects? Bacteria?Asks where the line is

I6 Zoos conserve species and educate.

A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.What matters is the species
I7 Aquariums and dolphin parks are harmless.Defends aquariums

I7 Aquariums and dolphin parks are harmless.

I6 Zoos conserve species and educate.Back to education and conservation
I8 Rodeos, bullfights and circuses are culture.Defends entertainment as culture

I8 Rodeos, bullfights and circuses are culture.

D7 It's legal; the law allows it.Culture turns into law
D1 We've always done it.We've always done it
D2 It's cultural; criticizing it is ethnocentric.Criticizing is ethnocentric

I9 Horses like working and being ridden.

A19 Vegans anthropomorphize animals.Anyone who disagrees would be projecting feelings
J14 Fishers and ranchers would lose their identity.People who live off it would lose their livelihood
C9 Farm animals exist for this.The horse would exist to be ridden

I10 In sport fishing the fish is released.

A6 Fish and invertebrates don't feel pain.Fish don't feel pain
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.It's my choice
H10 Sustainable fishing and aquaculture solve it.From sport fishing to commercial fishing

I11 Having a pet is exploitation too, and your cat eats meat.

L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Accuses of hypocrisy
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.No vegan is perfect
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Puts pets first

I12 Trophy hunting funds conservation.

H11 Hunting controls populations.Hunting controls populations
A18 What matters is the species, not the individual.What matters is the species

J1 Veganism is expensive.

J2 Poor people have no access.From price to access
J9 It's hard; I don't have time.From money to time
J13 Eating out, traveling and parties become impossible.If it isn't expensive, the social cost is pointed out

J2 Poor people have no access.

J1 Veganism is expensive.Veganism is expensive
J6 There are more important human problems.There are more important human problems
D3 Indigenous and traditional peoples eat animals.Uses another group with no choice

J3 Farmers and slaughterhouse workers would lose their jobs.

J14 Fishers and ranchers would lose their identity.They'd lose their identity too
J4 Agriculture is the backbone of the economy.Agriculture is the backbone of the economy

J4 Agriculture is the backbone of the economy.

J3 Farmers and slaughterhouse workers would lose their jobs.Back to jobs
J7 Veganism is a political ideology or a globalist agenda.Says it's an agenda against farmers

J5 What would we do with the animals if everyone went vegan?

J15 A vegan world is utopian.A vegan world is utopian
B6 Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist.Without farming, these animals wouldn't even exist

J6 There are more important human problems.

L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.Accuses vegans of not caring about humans
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Puts our own first

J7 Veganism is a political ideology or a globalist agenda.

L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.Veganism is a cult
E4 The state can't ban what I eat.They want to ban meat

J9 It's hard; I don't have time.

J11 Meat tastes good.If it isn't that hard, it's admitted the issue is pleasure
J13 Eating out, traveling and parties become impossible.From the kitchen to social life
E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.Difficulty turns into "I do what I can"
J1 Veganism is expensive.If it isn't that hard, it's said to be expensive

J10 Vegan food is bland.

J11 Meat tastes good.If plant food has flavor, the problem becomes the taste of meat
L8 If vegans eat fake meat, they want meat.Says imitating meat means wanting meat

J11 Meat tastes good.

E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.The completely frank version
J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.Tries to cut back without giving it up

J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.

E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.I know it's wrong, but I won't stop
E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.I do what I can

J13 Eating out, traveling and parties become impossible.

J11 Meat tastes good.Once the social cost is dealt with, pleasure is what's left
L1 Vegans are annoying and think they are better.The social cost turns into criticism of the vegan

J14 Fishers and ranchers would lose their identity.

D1 We've always done it.We've always done it
J3 Farmers and slaughterhouse workers would lose their jobs.Jobs depend on it

J15 A vegan world is utopian.

K1 One person doesn't make a difference.One person makes no difference
K5 I'll wait for cultivated meat.I'll wait for the technology

K1 One person doesn't make a difference.

B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.Hands the responsibility to the system
E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.If the choice makes a difference, the freedom to choose is what's left
E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.Where the chain of powerlessness ends
K2 The animal is already dead.The version of the person standing at the shelf
K4 There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.Generalizes powerlessness

K2 The animal is already dead.

B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.If buying restocks the shelf, the industry is blamed
K7 I don't kill; I just eat.Outsources the responsibility

K4 There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

K9 Vegans should fight for laws, not diets.Opposes political action to personal choice
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.If the differences in harm are huge, it's said veganism isn't perfect either

K5 I'll wait for cultivated meat.

H14 Eating insects is the sustainable protein of the futureThe search for an alternative protein
J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.Meanwhile, I eat less
K1 One person doesn't make a difference.Until then, one person makes no difference

K6 Radical veganism pushes people away.

L11 Vegan activists are radicals and extremists.Activists would be radicals
L1 Vegans are annoying and think they are better.Vegans are annoying
J12 I eat little meat; that's enough.Defends reduction only

K7 I don't kill; I just eat.

K2 The animal is already dead.The animal is already dead
B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.The industry is to blame

K9 Vegans should fight for laws, not diets.

E4 The state can't ban what I eat.But the state can't ban it
B4 The problem is the industry, not consumers.The responsibility would lie with the system

L1 Vegans are annoying and think they are better.

E5 Everything in moderation.Veganism is painted as radical
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.From annoyance to the "cult" label
L9 I'll eat double to make up for you.Irritation turns into a taunt
L13 Veganism is just a fad dietIrritation turns into contempt
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.From annoyance with the person to a charge of inconsistency

L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.

L11 Vegan activists are radicals and extremists.Fanaticism turns into extremism
E2 Morality is relative.If it's a belief, everyone would have their own
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.After the label, a flaw in the person is pointed out

L3 Hitler was a vegetarian.

L11 Vegan activists are radicals and extremists.Activists are extremists
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.Veganism is a cult
L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.Supposed misanthropy becomes an accusation

L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.

H2 Harvests kill animals; vegans kill too.The farming version of "you do it too"
I2 If you take medicine, you can't oppose testing.The medical version
L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.The general version: if it isn't perfect, it doesn't count
L9 I'll eat double to make up for you.When the argument runs out, the reaction is what's left

L5 Veganism isn't 100% cruelty-free.

K1 One person doesn't make a difference.If imperfection doesn't let you off, powerlessness is claimed
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Imperfection becomes a charge of hypocrisy
E6 Nobody's perfect; I do what I can.If reducing harm counts, it's said everyone does what they can
L9 I'll eat double to make up for you.When the argument runs out, the taunt is what's left

L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.

J6 There are more important human problems.There are more important human problems
A13 It's natural to put our own first.Our own first

L7 Comparing animal farming to slavery or the Holocaust is offensive.

A24 Species is biology, race is a social constructRejecting the analogy gets a justification
L6 Vegans care more about animals than people.Vegans would care more about animals than humans
A10 They're just animals.They're just animals

L8 If vegans eat fake meat, they want meat.

J11 Meat tastes good.If they want the taste, meat tastes good
L4 You use a phone, so you're a hypocrite.Accuses of inconsistency

L9 I'll eat double to make up for you.

E1 It's my personal choice; don't impose your morals.The taunt becomes a defense of freedom
J11 Meat tastes good.The taunt reveals the pleasure
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.After the taunt, only frankness is left: I won't change

L10 Most vegans give up.

G11 My body can't adapt.The body wouldn't adapt
J15 A vegan world is utopian.A vegan world is utopian

L11 Vegan activists are radicals and extremists.

K6 Radical veganism pushes people away.Radicalism would push people away
L3 Hitler was a vegetarian.Links veganism to hated figures

L12 Meat is for real men.

C1 It's natural to eat meat.It's natural
L9 I'll eat double to make up for you.I'll eat double

L13 Veganism is just a fad diet

L10 Most vegans give up.The fad would pass
L2 Veganism is a cult, a religion.Another label to avoid discussion
J1 Veganism is expensive.The fad is linked to expensive products