For the Animals
An Argument Guide
PT

Home / C. Nature, biology and evolution / Part DIR

C2

"Lions eat other animals."

The answer in one sentence

lions aren't moral agents and have no alternative. They don't deliberate, don't understand consequences and would die without hunting. We deliberate and have an alternative. We don't take our ethics from lions in anything else: they also kill the cubs of other males, and no one uses that as an example.

Short answer

The lion has no choice: it's an obligate carnivore, it doesn't deliberate and it would die without hunting. We can live well without eating animals and we understand what we do. That's why we don't judge the lion, and it's for the same reason that we can be judged. Besides, we don't copy the lion in anything else: male lions kill the cubs of other males, and no one draws a moral rule from that.

For children

The lion doesn't know there's another option. It doesn't go to the store, can't cook beans and needs to hunt to survive. You're different: you can choose what to eat and understand what happens to animals. No one gets angry at a baby who knocks over a cup, because the baby doesn't understand. It's the same with the lion: it doesn't choose. We do.

Ask a question back

"In what other area of life do you use the lion as an example of what's right?"

Como pode aparecer

"Lions eat other animals."
Everyday conversation
"That's how nature works."
Everyday conversation
"Cats eat mice."
Everyday conversation
"Are you going to ask the lion to go vegan?"
Social media
"So is the lion a murderer?"
Rhetorical question
"Predation is part of the natural order we belong to."
Academic version
"So should we stop lions from hunting?" (which is F3)
Disguised version

The strongest version

How it is said

"That's how nature works. Are you going to ask the lion to go vegan?"

Strongest version (steelman):

  1. P1Many animals kill and eat other animals.
  2. P2We don't morally condemn those animals for it.
  3. P3Humans are animals too.
  4. CSo there's no reason to condemn humans for eating animals.

The strong version draws on a real intuition: it would be strange to condemn a lion for hunting. The problem lies in P3, which treats the fact that we're animals as if it erased the difference that justifies not condemning the lion.

The argument is valid. Its soundness fails because the reason we don't condemn the lion, its lack of deliberation and of an alternative, doesn't apply to us.

Full answer

  1. a

    Reconstruction and diagnosis

    The difference between the lion and the human isn't whether they are animals, but two capacities:

    CapacityLionHuman
    Deliberating about one's own actions and their consequencesNoYes
    Living well without killing animalsNo: it's an obligate carnivoreYes, for anyone with access to a varied diet

    These two capacities are exactly what make someone a moral agent. The lion is a moral patient, who can be harmed, but not an agent who can be held responsible (A7).

  2. b

    Where the argument breaks

    1. The lion can't choose.

    It doesn't know alternatives exist, can't weigh consequences and wouldn't survive without hunting. Moral responsibility requires the capacity to choose.

    2. We can.

    Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate for humans at all stages of life, according to the US Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. The condition that excuses the lion doesn't apply to us.

    3. We don't copy the lion in anything else.

    Male lions that take over a pride often kill the cubs of the previous males. No one draws permission for humans from that. Choosing to imitate the lion only in diet is convenient selection.

    4. It's an appeal to nature.

    The argument assumes that what happens in nature is a moral model, which chapter C1 shows to be false.

    5. Lions don't confine or breed animals for slaughter.

    Even the descriptive comparison fails: industrial animal farming looks nothing like predation.

  3. c

    Data and sources

    SourceWhat it saysNote
    Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, 2016Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate at all stages of lifeShows the lion's condition doesn't apply to humans
    Regan, *The Case for Animal Rights* (1983)Distinction between moral agents and moral patientsAlso used in A7
  4. d

    The strongest counter-reply: we're natural predators

    The most serious version doesn't say we should imitate the lion. It says that we, like the lion, are part of a chain of predation, and that meat is part of human history and biology. Asking us to stop eating animals would be asking us to stop being the kind of animal we are.

  5. e

    Why the counter-reply doesn't reach the conclusion

    It turns into another argument.

    It becomes C1 ("it's natural"), C3 ("we have canine teeth") or C4 ("we're at the top of the food chain"), each with its own answer.

    Being able to do something doesn't oblige us to do it.

    We're able to do many things we choose not to do.

    Our history includes ethics too.

    The capacity to question what we do is as much part of who we are as the capacity to eat meat.

Reasoning errors

Logical

Is the form valid?

Appeal to nature
Takes another species' behavior as a moral model
False analogy
Compares someone with no choice to someone with a choice

Epistemological

Does the evidence support it?

Convenient selection
Imitates the lion only where it confirms the habit

Moral

Is the criterion coherent?

Confusing agent and patient
Treats beings without the capacity to choose as a reference for those who have it

Biases

The 4Ns rationalization

"Natural" is one of the most used justifications

Piazza et al., 2015

Motivated reasoning

The lion example is used only where it excuses change

General literature on motivated cognition

Extrapolations

The principle being tested is: "what other animals do is allowed for us".

If it applied to…InfanticideTap to see

It would be allowed, because lions practice it

No one accepts this

If it applied to…Violent territorial disputesTap to see

Killing intruders would be legitimate

Contradicts all of law

If it applied to…CannibalismTap to see

It would be acceptable, because it occurs in several species

No one accepts this

Contradictions

Doesn't copy the lion in anything else.

Not in violence, not in infanticide, not in social life.

Uses medicine, clothes and cooking.

None of that is what a lion would do.

Wouldn't let their cat decide the household's ethics.

Animal behavior is never a criterion on other matters.

What the argument gets right

What is true

The intuition that it makes no sense to condemn a lion for hunting is correct. It shows something important: moral responsibility depends on the capacity to choose and to understand. It's also true that we're animals and that our evolutionary history includes eating meat.

But

But it's precisely that intuition that brings the argument down. We don't condemn the lion because it can't choose. We can, and that's why the question applies to us.

Connections

Usually comes before

C1 It's natural to eat meat.Looks to nature for an example to copy
A7 No duties, no rights.Reciprocity turned against wild animals
C2this argument

Usually comes after

C3 We have canine teeth; we are omnivores.If lions aren't a model, anatomy is invoked
G1 We need animal protein.If nature doesn't convince, necessity is invoked
F3 So should we stop lions from hunting?The comparison turns into a taunt

Go deeper in Questão de Ética

Chapters from the open-access collection A Journey Through Animal Ethics that discuss this argument in more detail:

References