For the Animals
An Argument Guide
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Home / E. Relativism, freedom and evasions / Part DIR

E11

"Even philosophers don't agree."

The answer in one sentence

disagreement isn't a tie. Philosophers disagree about almost everything, including how to ground human rights, and no one concludes that anything goes. On the question of animals there is strong convergence: the main ethical theories condemn unnecessary suffering, and it's hard to find a philosopher who defends factory farming as it exists. Among specialists in ethics, most consider eating mammal meat morally bad.

Short answer

Philosophers disagree about almost everything, and no one concludes from that that anything goes. On the question of animals there's a strong point of convergence: the main ethical theories condemn unnecessary suffering, and it's hard to find anyone who defends factory farming as it exists. In a survey of ethics professors in the United States, about 60% rated regularly eating mammal meat as morally bad.

For children

Doctors sometimes disagree about which medicine is best. But they all agree you shouldn't give a patient poison. It's similar with philosophers: they disagree about many details, but almost all agree that making animals suffer without need is wrong.

Ask a question back

"Do you know any philosopher who defends factory farming as it is today?"

Como pode aparecer

"It's an open debate."
Everyday conversation
"Some philosophers defend eating meat."
Everyday conversation
"If even they can't agree, why should I change?"
Everyday conversation
"Peter Singer is just one philosopher among many."
Social media
"There is reasonable disagreement about the moral status of animals."
Academic version
"Great thinkers ate meat." (which is D10)
Disguised version

The strongest version

How it is said

"It's an open debate. Some philosophers defend eating meat."

Strongest version (steelman):

  1. P1Competent philosophers disagree about the moral status of animals.
  2. P2When experts disagree, laypeople can't be required to adopt a position.
  3. CSo everyone can carry on with their practice, including eating meat.

P1 is true: there is disagreement, especially about details. The problem lies in P2: disagreement among experts doesn't make all positions equally reasonable, and the points of convergence are already enough to condemn most of what happens.

The argument is valid. Its soundness fails at P2, and the argument ignores what philosophers have in common.

Full answer

  1. a

    Reconstruction and diagnosis

    The argument treats every disagreement as a tie. But there are degrees of agreement:

    QuestionIs there convergence?
    Is causing animals unnecessary suffering wrong?Yes, broad
    Does factory farming cause unnecessary suffering on a large scale?Yes, broad
    Is killing an animal painlessly wrong?More disagreement
    Do animals have rights in the same sense as humans?Theoretical disagreement

    Disagreement on the lower questions doesn't affect the conclusion of the upper ones, which is already enough to condemn almost all the meat that is consumed.

  2. b

    Where the argument breaks

    1. Disagreement isn't a tie.

    Every field of knowledge has disagreements, and that doesn't make all positions equivalent. Philosophers also disagree about how to ground human rights.

    2. The main theories converge.

    Utilitarianism condemns unnecessary suffering; rights theories condemn using sentient beings as means; virtue ethics condemns cruelty; contractualism, in its recent versions, has been extended to animals. By different routes, they reach similar conclusions.

    3. Ethics specialists lean one way.

    In a survey of US professors, about 60% of ethics specialists rated regularly eating mammal meat as morally bad, compared with about 20% of professors in other fields.

    4. Defenses of factory farming are rare.

    Even philosophers who defend eating meat usually defend only forms very different from current production, such as animals raised with a good life and killed painlessly (B5).

    5. The argument usually serves to end the conversation.

    But when you look at what philosophers say about animals, the conclusion is clearer than the phrase suggests.

  3. c

    Data and sources

    SourceWhat it saysNote
    Schwitzgebel, *The Moral Lives of Ethicists*About 60% of ethics specialists rated regularly eating mammal meat as morally badA survey done with Joshua Rust; the same study shows their behavior didn't change to the same extent
    PhilPapers Survey 2020About 26% of philosophers accept or lean toward vegetarianism as an ethical position, and 18% toward veganismThe question is about what is permissible to eat; together the two positions reach about 44%
  4. d

    The strongest counter-reply: even the experts eat meat

    The most serious version points out that, in the same study, ethics specialists ate meat almost as much as other professors. If not even those who study the subject change, the moral conclusion can't be that clear.

  5. e

    Why the counter-reply doesn't reach the conclusion

    Behavior doesn't measure truth.

    The study shows that knowing what's right isn't enough to change, not that the conclusion is wrong (E12).

    The counter-reply confirms the convergence.

    The specialists think it's wrong, even if not all of them change.

    The difficulty of changing is a practical problem.

    It's a reason to create conditions for change, not to deny the problem.

Reasoning errors

Logical

Is the form valid?

False balance
Treats any disagreement as a tie

Epistemological

Does the evidence support it?

Not knowing the debate
Ignores the points of convergence
Disagreement as absence of an answer
Concludes there's no answer because there's discussion

Moral

Is the criterion coherent?

Using disagreement as an excuse
Doubt becomes permission

Biases

Motivated reasoning

Disagreement is remembered only where it excuses change

General literature on motivated cognition

Status quo bias

When in doubt, the current practice is kept

Samuelson and Zeckhauser, 1988

Extrapolations

The principle being tested is: "if experts disagree, I can do as I please".

If it applied to…Climate changeTap to see

One dissenting scientist would be enough to ignore the problem

No sensible person accepts this

If it applied to…Human rightsTap to see

Philosophical disagreement would be enough to disregard them

No one accepts this

If it applied to…MedicineTap to see

One dissenting doctor would be enough to refuse any treatment

No one accepts this

Contradictions

Doesn't use disagreement on other subjects.

Philosophers disagree about how to ground human rights, and no one concludes that anything goes.

Wouldn't use the argument for cruelty to dogs.

Even though some philosophers deny we have direct duties to animals.

Hasn't read the philosophers they cite.

The argument usually comes without any author.

What the argument gets right

What is true

It's true that there is philosophical disagreement about animals, and that it's serious: there are legitimate discussions about the value of animal life, the strength of duties and borderline cases. Recognizing this is a sign of intellectual honesty.

But

But the disagreement is in the details, not at the center. Almost everyone agrees that unnecessary suffering is wrong, and that's already enough to condemn most of what happens to animals today.

Connections

Usually comes before

D10 Great thinkers ate meat.Says even philosophers don't agree
E10 Veganism is opinion, not science.Says even philosophers don't agree
E11this argument

Usually comes after

E2 Morality is relative.From disagreement to relativism
E12 I know it's wrong, but I won't change.Like the experts, admits the wrong and doesn't change
E13 Defending animals is just utilitarianismDisagreement becomes the label of a single school

Go deeper in Questão de Ética

Chapters from the open-access collection A Journey Through Animal Ethics that discuss this argument in more detail:

References